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whiteadelphiUnlike much of the fandom, I had more interest in BTTS at its start and the first few episodes. My interest has been steadily going down into disgust ever since. There are still scenes that are great. There are lines that are so in keeping with earlier seasons I smile in relief, and there are plots that are reminiscent of those seasons which just aren't pulled off well, but still make me smile. But in general? I'm downgrading this series to worse than the others, despite having some far better moments than the last two seasons.
In attempting to explain why ... I can't, fully. I'd be here for days and I'd still forget something. To dotpoint it:
1) Lack of internal consistency;
2) Lack of continuity with the previous seasons;
3) Lack of consistent characterisation;
4) Cheap artwork is one thing, but shoddily cutting corners is another;
5) Shredder and Khan are behaving like maniacal villains from the 1970s;
6) And that means their plots are only diabolical in their sheer stupidity and WTF;
7) Lack of forethought in plots;
8) The turtles currently bear more resemblance to their OT selves than their NT selves;
9) Lack of actual explicable science as opposed to making-shit-up science; and possibly as a result of these nine points:
10) Lack of any kind of depth to the episodes that makes me care about the outcome.
Examples? The first four probably speak for themselves.
5) Let's not get into Khan and his Gong Of Hypnotism And Eyeliner +5. Or Cyber-Shredder setting loose masses of animals on the streets and highly resembling a Digimon player, or his cunning plan to hack into the turtles and make them foot soldiers. You know, on that last point:
6)
Episode #3: "Aha! Those miserable turtles have a cyber portal, do they? I WANT AND CRAVE D:"
Episode #7 - how the conversation could have gone and made me laugh:
Shredder: I have brainwashed the turtles into believing they are part of my superior Foot army. Woohoo!
Khan: What now, master? Shall I kill them? That'd like ...make sense.
Shredder: Hmm, no.
Khan: You know what would totally make complete and villainous clever sense, master? You've been drooling after their cyber portal since episode #3, and you totally need one to rule the world just as you keep whining you will. What say we use our newly brainwashed turtles to fetch you said portal so you can come through into the real world seven episodes ahead of time and get a head start on your reign of terror?
Shredder: Silence your logical ways, Khan! No! They're MY enemies and I'll be stupid if I want to! Send them off to, I dunno, piss Hun off. I hate that guy. For some reason I haven't told anyone, given I'm based off early notes of myself by myself in which Hun was a loyal henchman, WTF. Oh wait, that comes under points 1), 2) and 3), doesn't it.
Khan: ...
Shredder: Look, don't upset the writers. If I come out of cyberspace now the series will be much shorter. I doubt they're much good at writing on the fly. Probably planned whole months for this stuff.
Khan: Yes, almighty Shredder. Stupidhead.
Shredder: What was that?
Khan: >_>
Number (7)
Where to begin? Look, I'll just ignore the last few and concentrate on Episode #10. The turtles think they come out of cyberspace but are really in a virtual reality created by Cyber Shredder So they come out in an exact replica of their lair. With the exact layout to their lair so that they can reach the surface world.
See, I'm gonna excuse all the crack that happened outside the lair - that made no sense, that was apparently designed to tip the turtles off that something was wrong because things kept going screwy - under either a) There's a bunch of Foot programmers who were really, really bored that day, or b) Cyber Shredder did it himself and proved that apparently programs can't design programs; either that, or he just successfully proved point (5) again.
Putting aside that, that is an exactly replica of their lair. With the exact layout yada yada. Where did that come from? Easily explained. Hypnotised Casey told Khan everything, according to episode #2. It's possible or even probable that he might have given anything from detailed descriptions of the lair to tours of the lair in question. Hey, it's not like the turtles were around at that point.
So I could accept that plot point. But you know what that means?
It means the Foot clan knows exactly where the lair is and how to get there.
Yeah, what's up with that? It was foreshadowed in episode #2, but ... writers, did you think that one through? Because why are there not Foot soldiers already pouring down through all the tunnel systems to Wipe Them Out (All of Them!)?
And a secondary point; if Casey is where they got their information from - hell, even it it isn't - why the hell is Serling in that virtual reality? Shredder knows nothing about him. Ding! We have a point (1) here.
Yeah. I had real problems with that. (But the spooky April by the burning truck was kinda neat, as was the cyberfight. See, there are good things about this series, but just like the third season of Ruroken, not enough to stop me cringing in pain.)
Point (8). Closely aligned to point (2) and (3). This could be just my imagination, because I've watched the entirety of OT, but ...
Leo is a wallflower, leading as a figurehead if anything, and he sounds more ditzy/mommy like in each episode. FLAKE.
Don has a copy of the script. I swear. A couple of minor clues and suddenly he has the whole evil plot figured out.
Raph ...has lost that edge that makes him Raph. Though to be fair, he lost that in Fast Forward. But he's got that sarcasm and rudeness and whatnot, and I keep expecting him to take a hammer to the fourth wall.
Mikey? He hasn't reverted to being stupid, slow, surfer lingual or a pizza devourer, so kudos for him. Mikey's the closest to being well characterised in this series. Good for him. SAVE YOUR BROTHERS FROM THEIR OT SELVES, MIKEY. YOU CAN DO IT.
...they got reprogrammed in cyberspace, right? >_>
Point (9)
THE INTERNET DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. DON, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU JUST NOT HACKING PROGRAMS FROM THE OUTSIDE AND RETRIEVING YOUR DATA BITS? THAT WORKS, YOU KNOW. WE DIDN'T NEED THIS CYBER-SHIT ANGLE AT ALL.
Closely aligned with points (1), (7), and (8).
(10).... is hard to explain, and is obviously only a personal opinion. But really, I realised I didn't give a damn about any of these characters. They're too caricatured. The cartoon is too light and choppy and inconsistent for me to care more than watching the pretty fights and grasping at the ghostly straws of echoes of earlier seasons. Even in Fast Forward I cared about the characters. In BTTS, I do not. The turtles have lost their individual nature (3) and the plots are ridiculous (7), and I suspect the writers are caught in that hard place between "Make it darker like the earlier seasons and the movie!" and "But make sure it's still for kids!" and are hence just ...all over the place trying to find that happy medium. And it shows.
The Engagement Ring episode? Best one. By far. Nothing about it made me cringe in the slightest. Most other episodes? Do have scenes that I like, and that's what keeps me watching. But ... I cringe and flinch at least three or four times an episode at the things that are just plain ...wrong.
The scary thing is that these are just examples, and I could think of a whole bunch more things. But as I said, I'd be here all day. All I'd like to say is: 4Kids? That complaint you had about how TMNT started losing money? That happened around Fast Forward, you know. And I'm sorry to say that every trick you try to cheapen the episode budget is just making more and more people twitch and turn away. It's called, "self-fulfilling money pit." You fools.
(See, I wonder about (4). If the series was still animated as well as the first five seasons, would I be more inclined to look past all the bullshit? ::scratches head::)
In attempting to explain why ... I can't, fully. I'd be here for days and I'd still forget something. To dotpoint it:
1) Lack of internal consistency;
2) Lack of continuity with the previous seasons;
3) Lack of consistent characterisation;
4) Cheap artwork is one thing, but shoddily cutting corners is another;
5) Shredder and Khan are behaving like maniacal villains from the 1970s;
6) And that means their plots are only diabolical in their sheer stupidity and WTF;
7) Lack of forethought in plots;
8) The turtles currently bear more resemblance to their OT selves than their NT selves;
9) Lack of actual explicable science as opposed to making-shit-up science; and possibly as a result of these nine points:
10) Lack of any kind of depth to the episodes that makes me care about the outcome.
Examples? The first four probably speak for themselves.
5) Let's not get into Khan and his Gong Of Hypnotism And Eyeliner +5. Or Cyber-Shredder setting loose masses of animals on the streets and highly resembling a Digimon player, or his cunning plan to hack into the turtles and make them foot soldiers. You know, on that last point:
6)
Episode #3: "Aha! Those miserable turtles have a cyber portal, do they? I WANT AND CRAVE D:"
Episode #7 - how the conversation could have gone and made me laugh:
Shredder: I have brainwashed the turtles into believing they are part of my superior Foot army. Woohoo!
Khan: What now, master? Shall I kill them? That'd like ...make sense.
Shredder: Hmm, no.
Khan: You know what would totally make complete and villainous clever sense, master? You've been drooling after their cyber portal since episode #3, and you totally need one to rule the world just as you keep whining you will. What say we use our newly brainwashed turtles to fetch you said portal so you can come through into the real world seven episodes ahead of time and get a head start on your reign of terror?
Shredder: Silence your logical ways, Khan! No! They're MY enemies and I'll be stupid if I want to! Send them off to, I dunno, piss Hun off. I hate that guy. For some reason I haven't told anyone, given I'm based off early notes of myself by myself in which Hun was a loyal henchman, WTF. Oh wait, that comes under points 1), 2) and 3), doesn't it.
Khan: ...
Shredder: Look, don't upset the writers. If I come out of cyberspace now the series will be much shorter. I doubt they're much good at writing on the fly. Probably planned whole months for this stuff.
Khan: Yes, almighty Shredder. Stupidhead.
Shredder: What was that?
Khan: >_>
Number (7)
Where to begin? Look, I'll just ignore the last few and concentrate on Episode #10. The turtles think they come out of cyberspace but are really in a virtual reality created by Cyber Shredder So they come out in an exact replica of their lair. With the exact layout to their lair so that they can reach the surface world.
See, I'm gonna excuse all the crack that happened outside the lair - that made no sense, that was apparently designed to tip the turtles off that something was wrong because things kept going screwy - under either a) There's a bunch of Foot programmers who were really, really bored that day, or b) Cyber Shredder did it himself and proved that apparently programs can't design programs; either that, or he just successfully proved point (5) again.
Putting aside that, that is an exactly replica of their lair. With the exact layout yada yada. Where did that come from? Easily explained. Hypnotised Casey told Khan everything, according to episode #2. It's possible or even probable that he might have given anything from detailed descriptions of the lair to tours of the lair in question. Hey, it's not like the turtles were around at that point.
So I could accept that plot point. But you know what that means?
It means the Foot clan knows exactly where the lair is and how to get there.
Yeah, what's up with that? It was foreshadowed in episode #2, but ... writers, did you think that one through? Because why are there not Foot soldiers already pouring down through all the tunnel systems to Wipe Them Out (All of Them!)?
And a secondary point; if Casey is where they got their information from - hell, even it it isn't - why the hell is Serling in that virtual reality? Shredder knows nothing about him. Ding! We have a point (1) here.
Yeah. I had real problems with that. (But the spooky April by the burning truck was kinda neat, as was the cyberfight. See, there are good things about this series, but just like the third season of Ruroken, not enough to stop me cringing in pain.)
Point (8). Closely aligned to point (2) and (3). This could be just my imagination, because I've watched the entirety of OT, but ...
Leo is a wallflower, leading as a figurehead if anything, and he sounds more ditzy/mommy like in each episode. FLAKE.
Don has a copy of the script. I swear. A couple of minor clues and suddenly he has the whole evil plot figured out.
Raph ...has lost that edge that makes him Raph. Though to be fair, he lost that in Fast Forward. But he's got that sarcasm and rudeness and whatnot, and I keep expecting him to take a hammer to the fourth wall.
Mikey? He hasn't reverted to being stupid, slow, surfer lingual or a pizza devourer, so kudos for him. Mikey's the closest to being well characterised in this series. Good for him. SAVE YOUR BROTHERS FROM THEIR OT SELVES, MIKEY. YOU CAN DO IT.
...they got reprogrammed in cyberspace, right? >_>
Point (9)
THE INTERNET DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. DON, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU JUST NOT HACKING PROGRAMS FROM THE OUTSIDE AND RETRIEVING YOUR DATA BITS? THAT WORKS, YOU KNOW. WE DIDN'T NEED THIS CYBER-SHIT ANGLE AT ALL.
Closely aligned with points (1), (7), and (8).
(10).... is hard to explain, and is obviously only a personal opinion. But really, I realised I didn't give a damn about any of these characters. They're too caricatured. The cartoon is too light and choppy and inconsistent for me to care more than watching the pretty fights and grasping at the ghostly straws of echoes of earlier seasons. Even in Fast Forward I cared about the characters. In BTTS, I do not. The turtles have lost their individual nature (3) and the plots are ridiculous (7), and I suspect the writers are caught in that hard place between "Make it darker like the earlier seasons and the movie!" and "But make sure it's still for kids!" and are hence just ...all over the place trying to find that happy medium. And it shows.
The Engagement Ring episode? Best one. By far. Nothing about it made me cringe in the slightest. Most other episodes? Do have scenes that I like, and that's what keeps me watching. But ... I cringe and flinch at least three or four times an episode at the things that are just plain ...wrong.
The scary thing is that these are just examples, and I could think of a whole bunch more things. But as I said, I'd be here all day. All I'd like to say is: 4Kids? That complaint you had about how TMNT started losing money? That happened around Fast Forward, you know. And I'm sorry to say that every trick you try to cheapen the episode budget is just making more and more people twitch and turn away. It's called, "self-fulfilling money pit." You fools.
(See, I wonder about (4). If the series was still animated as well as the first five seasons, would I be more inclined to look past all the bullshit? ::scratches head::)
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no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 02:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 02:47 am (UTC)Loved ep 3, and.....yeah, that's about it. Loved ep 3. >.< Hell, I loved FF compared to this.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 02:49 am (UTC)*cough* So I actually just watched the first part of episode 9 and...
...my god Don's hacking skills have plumpited. He can HACK into Shredder's main computer of highly guarded secerts to get a layout of the place... but not a video game.
And play by the games rules? WTF? Wasn't he bending 'rules' of cyber space already?
And lastly...
You loot a Splinter Bit!
DO DO DO DOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Collect all 50 pieces to make the Splinter Compainion Pet worth ten achivement points! YAY!
Soon all nerdy gamers will be walking around with tiny Splinters following behind them! Aw, how cute! You've gained the pointless episode achivement!
...and seriously court jester? Why is that even a class? It would have been funnier if he was a gnome. A short GIRL green gnome.
EDITING AGAIN: No... what would have been even better? Having to do that Nagrad poop quests.
Yes! Still editing: HOLY CRAP! IT'S YOUR NINJA CRAB!
EDIT: I swear to god the last one because I'm too bored now to bother staying awake. I WANT A BOUNCING JUMPING CAR! And at the end of the episode I was really hoping for a: Is this really real joke? No. I get a damn stupid ass bug. AND WHY WAS THERE NO JOKE ABOUT MIKEY BEING RIGHT! Sure their situation was dire and they were in a hurry... but it never stopped Raph before!
no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 03:30 am (UTC)The whole 'We're in Wow :D' ep though just made it surprisingly hard for me to mock. I guessed it was from my dad and brother being the douche-est of WoW players and my bad experience with the group. Also how irritated I felt that they brought internet lingo into the show. It just dates it. I couldn't smile nor mock it the whole time.
For Shredder knowing about Serling guh- I'd say maybe some of Viral is still there? Lord I'd almost like to see her break free of him somehow.no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 04:27 am (UTC)Bdfdkdghd?!
no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 07:14 am (UTC)...they got reprogrammed in cyberspace, right? >_>
made me think of this: they got stuck in cyberspace in episode one, and some nut is playing around with them, thinking its a virtual reality, and they are the other players/characters.
i watch the episodes with my son, 8, and even he asks if we can watch the movie or the older seasons next. ((he liked fast forward, for reference))
no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 08:03 am (UTC)I think you have reinforced my complete apathy about hunting these eps down online and watching them at all.
But that's okay. Really.
I don't think I can stand it.
WHAT THE HELL IS THE MATTER WITH THIS FRANCHISE??!!
Why do they keep doing this? They take this awesome group of characters (strong, well-developed personalities)with this really cool premise (little guys against all odds trying to do the Right Thing with everyone conspiring against them) give us a little bit of quality for a while to remind us why we love them (2K3 series, TMNT 2007), and then mountains of absolute crap? (FF, BTTS, Vol 4)
Fan Fiction. That's it. I'm going back to hiding there again until someone at Mirage comes out of their recurring coma and remembers what kind of gold they *have* again.
And....I owe you reviews on Legacy. It's wonderful and I'm a terrible flake for not having done that yet.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 08:40 am (UTC)So I've been bumbling along with the flow happily for the most part, seeing as it's a small relief from the real world but all I get- therefore, I needs it. As I'm a zombie these days.
Apparently, zombie!Pi doesn't pay as much attention to this stuff as much as she used to. For it isn't until I was reading over this that something seemed to kick in. Or rather, it was like I was just walking along and slammed into a brick wall made up of your entire list here.
(rubs head) Ow. XD
I still enjoyed the last episode quite a bit. The one before it I like for it's crack- I came in not taking it seriously. After that, I like the Hacking Stockman ep and Engagement Ring.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 09:35 am (UTC)Episode nine and ten were not up for bout two weeks. (well episode nine wasn't) One week or two I forget. Regardless of me knowing it was cheesy and corny I still had to see it, just to see it right?
Just watched them.
...wish I hadn't.
I agree with you these are horrible. There is like one scene per episode that I enjoy. One spot of animation that is like "hey wow!" they flipped all crazy or something cool. But then I go back and watch the 03 season and shake my head, because almost every scene made me go "hey wow" not just one scene every few weeks. -_____-
I know its called 4kids..because technically its for kids, but I'd honestly think even the children should be offended at this point.
Should just make a 4teens or 4kicking4kidsAssBecauseWere4beingActuallyCool.
Mikey is my favorite character, and there making me hate him. I want to punch him in the face so he starts to give a rip about finding his own father.
ugh...ends this rant before it gets bigger...
no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 09:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 12:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 12:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 12:54 pm (UTC)Still. At least it's not the old toon. :)
no subject
Date: 2008-11-24 08:29 pm (UTC)If some of you people know how to make this cartoon and think you can do a better job than 4Kids, by all means, go right ahead. Find/build your own studio, hire writers, artists, and animators Dong Woo and let's see what you come up with. I wish you good luck on the endeavor as well.
I like this season so far. It's better than Fast Forward, but to me I think anything would have been better. Just think what we could have ended up with instead. There are far worst possibilities and we all read about those ideas. TMNT Overload, anyone? Where they could've been teamed up with toddler versions of themselves; for a whole season. You think BTTS is bad? It would probably be nothing compared to that.
I don't know... Maybe I've just learned to appreciate what I have instead of always pining for the greener grass on the other side. You'll never be satisfied that way.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-25 09:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-25 09:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-25 09:19 am (UTC)Though the court jester comes from RO, I think... homage to random games. (It was still stupid. But I laughed my ass off at the ninja crab XD XD)
no subject
Date: 2008-11-25 09:20 am (UTC)And I kinda like the Viral idea. >.> That ...screams plot bunny to me, actually...
no subject
Date: 2008-11-25 09:22 am (UTC)Either way, I'm glad to find myself in good company on the dislike of this show. :D
no subject
Date: 2008-11-25 09:23 am (UTC)That would seriously make the series awesome, you know? Still being stuck from episode 1.
Yeah, it's pretty sad if an 8 year old thinks it sucks as well. I was considering the whole "Hmm, if I was a child would I think it was awesome?" angle ...but I'd say not, really.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-25 09:26 am (UTC)To be honest, he might be better off either taking a huge break or selling the franchise to someone else who still cares about it, because the way he's acting he's going to doom the entire thing, and I'm not sure he quite wants that yet ... :/
But yeah. Season 8 has some *fun* moments in it, but not enough to qualify the season as good to me. There was one particularly great episode, though, where Casey proposed to April - think that was episode 4. Not a hint of cyberspace anywhere. If you find any episode at all, have a poke at that one. :)
(And ... I'm relieved. I knew you'd read Legacy, but as I hadn't heard anything more I was thinking "Oh dear, she hates it..." Hee.)
no subject
Date: 2008-11-25 09:27 am (UTC)Seriously, though. I kinda wish I could turn my logic off so I could lean back and watch this series and enjoy... but no.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-25 09:28 am (UTC)4Kids are unfortunately towing the line that "cartoons are ONLY for kids" ...and then failing to understand exactly what kids appreciate SEEING. Gah.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-25 09:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-25 09:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-26 03:17 am (UTC)Dude, it'd be pretty friggen sweet, she'd take over Shredder an rule the foot in a more tech based sort of thing or burst out of him and prove to be the better baddy.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-26 05:57 am (UTC)Kids nowadays are getting fed crap, and as much as we'd like NOT believe they are capable of understanding more, they are. They deserve a better story. Imaginations need to grow and all that jazz....bleh
*stops rant*